維基百科討論:Guestbook for non-Chinese speakers/Archives/2014

"Pandian" meaning in Chinese

Can anyone tell me the meaning of "Pandian" in Chninese? Some one said that it meant for occupied land. Can anyone give me the link of Chinese-English dictionary to refer the meaning of "Pandian" in English?--தென்காசி சுப்பிரமணியன்（留言） 2013年12月3日 (二) 17:38 (UTC)

May I know what language is "Pandian" in? Is it Tamil? --黃居士 （留言 ^公開 _私底下 | 參與專題） 2014年1月12日 (日) 06:47 (UTC)

You are also recommended to ask this question in en:Wikipedia:Reference desk in the English Wikipedia since you understand English as your question requires linguistic research. Cheers, 黃居士 （留言 ^公開 _私底下 | 參與專題） 2014年1月12日 (日) 06:51 (UTC)

No. I'm asking chinese meaning only. There are five places in the name of Pandian in China. Dozens of Highways are there in China in the name of Pandian. Any how I'll ask it in Reference desk also. Thanks for your support.--தென்காசி சுப்பிரமணியன்（留言） 2014年1月12日 (日) 09:57 (UTC)

There are several townships in China named Pandian:

1. 潘店鄉 Pandian Township, Fengqiu County, Henan (see en:List of township-level divisions of Henan)
2. 潘店鎮 (齊河縣) Pandian Town, Qihe County, Shandong (see en:List of township-level divisions of Shandong)
3. 潘店鎮 (封丘縣) Pandian Town, Fengqiu County, Henan

Please specify where you find this word if it's not a township listed above.--HNAKXR（留言） 2014年1月12日 (日) 13:45 (UTC)

Hi, in Chinese, a Latin transliteration (i.e. Hanyu Pinyin) may refer to anything. For example, a Chinese characters can be pronounced in four tones, yet transliterated in English without tonal marks. I do not know where you found this word. Many characters have the same pronunciation and tone. Furthermore, a Chinese character bears many meanings. So it would be impossible to know the meaning if you do not state the source you got the word. --黃居士 （留言 ^公開 _私底下 | 參與專題） 2014年1月18日 (六) 10:07 (UTC)

Oh! I see. Thanks for your Info. The source is one Chinese to English dictionary. But I don't know that dictionary name. And that occupied land meaning is meant for the places which were named as Pandian in China. It is also better for me to know why that Places were named as Pandian.--தென்காசி சுப்பிரமணியன்（留言） 2014年1月18日 (六) 17:12 (UTC)

關於提交的條目被刪除

—以上未簽名的留言由Gcprime（對話｜貢獻）於2014年1月28日 (二) 08:48‎ (UTC)加入。

Hi Im IceCreamBips_70 and i just want to translate the page of Televisa Rebelde (Telenovela) check in es:Rebelde (telenovela) es: Rebelde (telenovela) or in link from this:

• https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebelde_%28telenovela%29 (language in spanish)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebelde (Language in english)

so please translate them to the Chinese Language. Thanks so much.

Hi Im IceCreamBips_70 and i just want to translate the page of Televisa Rebelde (Telenovela) check in es:Rebelde (telenovela) es: Rebelde (telenovela) or in link from this:

   https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebelde_%28telenovela%29 (language in spanish)
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebelde (Language in english)

so please translate them to the Chinese Language. Thanks so much.

IRC

The Chinese IRC channel #wikipedia-zh has been abandoned it seemed. There is a message there stating you have moved, but from the wikimedia adviced server I cannot enter. I tried to find an admin but noone could help me. Sincerely, Taketa（留言） 2014年6月4日 (三) 12:01 (UTC)

Issue with creating an article

Good day!

Wanted to create chinese version of the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_International_Forum_for_Innovative_Development_%C2%ABOpen_Innovations%C2%BB, but it seems that administrator participation is required — https://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E8%8E%AB%E6%96%AF%E7%A7%91%E5%9B%BD%E9%99%85%E5%88%9B%E6%96%B0%E5%8F%91%E5%B1%95%E8%AE%BA%E5%9D%9B%E2%80%9C%E5%BC%80%E6%94%BE%E5%BC%8F%E5%88%9B%E6%96%B0%E2%80%9D&action=edit

Could you please assist on this issue or advise the English-speaking administrator?

Thank you in advance and best regards from Moscow,

Vladimir—以上未簽名的留言由Cyberfunk（對話｜貢獻）於2014年6月16日 (一) 09:10 (UTC)加入。

• 完成。--廣雅 范★ 2014年6月16日 (一) 11:32 (UTC)

Please create article for 徐正陶

徐正陶 en:Ted Hsu is a Canadian politician of Chinese descent. If you think that an article about him would be appropriate for the Chinese Wikipedia, you might want to refer to the English Wikipedia's article at en:Ted Hsu. You may also want to expand the article in the English Wikipedia. Eastmain（留言） 2014年8月8日 (五) 00:54 (UTC)

Canadian people of Chinese descent

The English Wikipedia has many biographies of Canadian people of Chinese descent. They can be found at en:Category:Canadian people of Chinese descent. Many of these people, such as en:Jean Lee (aircraftwoman), do not have a corresponding article in the Chinese Wikipedia. Please consider creating articles about these people in the Chinese Wikipedia and expanding the articles about these people in the English Wikipedia. Eastmain（留言） 2014年8月8日 (五) 00:54 (UTC)

Thanks for your reminder. --Good afternoon（留言） 2014年8月15日 (五) 11:39 (UTC)

Creating link for 莫斯科國際創新發展論壇《開放式創新》

Dear Wikipedia moderators!

Could you please help with creating page for https://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=莫斯科国际创新发展论坛《开放式创新》?

Thank you in advance! —以上未加入日期時間的留言是於2014年9月10日 (三) 00:42 (UTC)之前加入的。

@石：Why is the previous article he requested 莫斯科國際創新發展論壇「開放式創新」 deleted? Refer to here, it should not be an advertisement. --Good afternoon（留言） 2014年9月18日 (四) 09:14 (UTC)

Information on en:Sonom requested for 索諾木朋楚克

I wrote en:Sonom#Misidentification_as_a_Hmong_king on EN. I think Chinese scholars of Sonom should know about his misidentification as a Hmong king in the western world, so I would like for the content to be translated and posted at 索諾木朋楚克.

Thanks WhisperToMe（留言） 2014年8月29日 (五) 15:19 (UTC)

@立足東方：--E8xE8（533） 2014年9月19日 (五) 14:35 (UTC)

Monuments of Spain Challenge

Excuse me for not speaking Chinese yet.

Wikimedia España invites you to join the Monuments of Spain Challenge. And what’s that? It’s a contest. You have to edit, translate or expand articles about the Spanish monuments and you will be granted points. So you’re not just writing about wonderful buildings: you can get prizes!

The time of the contest will include all October and any information you may need is right here.

Join in and good luck!

PS: We would be grateful if you could translate this note into Chinese.

B25es on behalf of Wikimedia España. —以上未加入日期時間的留言是於2014年9月28日 (日) 00:42 (UTC)之前加入的。

Pictures 惜字塔

I have shot some really nice photos of a 惜字爐 in Soochow University in Taipei a few days ago: (http://www.scu.edu.tw/planning/Historyweb/new/picture%20story/Sight/sight23.htm) (that's the location)

You can contact me under my user name at German Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:HAL-Guandu

Click on E-Mail an diesen Benutzer on the left (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:E-Mail_senden/HAL-Guandu)

... and you can contact me by e-mail in Chinese (I read quite well).

HAL-Guandu --HAL-Guandu（留言） 2014年10月17日 (五) 12:03 (UTC)

Ready for translation: VisualEditor News #9—2014

Hi! This is an invitation to join translators working on the November's issue of the VisualEditor monthly newsletter, which will be widely delivered later this week. The previous bulletin was published in 10 languages, but the translation was completed only for three of them. Will we do better this month? We'd like to reach many more communities in their own language this time, as we're announcing interesting developments like the new ability to add tables and their elements. Thanks a lot for your help! Elitre (WMF) 2014年11月11日 (二) 10:24 (UTC)

PS: Here are some instructions. Please go to the translation page: your language should be available from the drop-down menu on the right. Once you've selected it, you'll see the document in English side by side with any translation work already done in your language. You can add new translations or modify existing ones. If you need further help or would like to receive a talk page message to be notified of future translations, please contact me directly.

PPS: My apologies if you have read this elsewhere, and if I picked up a wrong page for this request: please feel free to move it to the most appropriate venue!

Duplicate item

假扁蓄 and 習見蓼 are about the same topic (a plant, and the Latin name is the same). Innotata（留言） 2014年11月8日 (六) 21:04 (UTC)

Merged. --E8xE8（901） 2014年11月11日 (二) 10:39 (UTC)

Articles about Russian artists

Anybody can help to improve the translation from English or Russian into Chinese articles about Russian artists? List of Articles in need of better translation can be found on my user page. Thank you! Leningradartist（留言） 2014年11月24日 (一) 21:23 (UTC)

User:Leningradartist/尼古拉·加拉霍夫 ，User:Leningradartist/尼古拉·蒂姆科夫

Dear users, Can anyone look at these small articles User:Leningradartist/尼古拉·加拉霍夫 ，User:Leningradartist/尼古拉·蒂姆科夫 and, if necessary, correct them? I had rewrote the 《Introduction》 and 《Biography》 sections for return these articles in the main space of the project. Thanks for help and advice! - Leningradartist（留言） 2014年11月30日 (日) 09:57 (UTC)

Smart house

I want to know about the knowlege of smart house.Who can help me? —以上未加入日期時間的留言是於2014年12月4日 (四) 08:42 (UTC)之前加入的。

How can edits complying with Wikipedia's rule be regarded as vandalism?

1. I concentrate on punctuation revision, what's the problem?
2. I only concentrate on punctuation revision so I can do fast than usual without using automatic tools, what's the problem?
3. Were my edit intervals really too short? I just submitted more than one articles at the same time after completing their revisions! Please review my edit history again! Or please tell me how many articles I can submit at the same time!
4. User:Mewaqua criticizes my edit behavior is "只是依照既定「規則」刷編輯". I don't care my edit counts at all. If I cared, I should do much more than your imagine. How can a user arbitrarily judge another user?
5. User:Mewaqua criticizes "有時胡亂刪掉參考文獻內新聞標題用作分隔句子的space"、"經常引致斜體字和數學公式不易閱讀"、"有時把本應分段的內容合併在一起", what are the evidences? Or how many errors in my over 9,000 edits? More than 0.5% or 1%? A few my edits might be wrong just as your edits might be incorrect. Why didn't you tell me what articles should be revised again or revise them directly by yourselves? How many Chinese Wikipedians are so unfriendly?
6. User:578985s just doubted I am a robot or using a robot, then reported to vandalism. Administrator User:Kuailong also agreed to him. In English Wikipedia, they say "The edits of the reported user must be obvious vandalism or obvious spam." Why is Chinese Wikipedia so arbitrary and unfriendly?
7. Some users appreciated my edits. How can Administrator ignore this fact intentionally?
8. If my edits is correct without error, what's the problem? Or what's bad to Wikipedia? Why can some users always revert my edits just because they don't like their articles to be touched? See:

1. IMI TAR-21突擊步槍 has been reverted by User:Krasnyy Suou.
2. 雷明登887霰彈槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
3. 伯奈利M1 Super 90霰彈槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
4. 伯奈利新星霰彈槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
5. 伯奈利拉斐爾CrioComfort霰彈槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
6. 伯奈利拉斐爾霰彈槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
7. 齊亞帕犀牛式左輪手槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
8. 伯奈利達文西霰彈槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
9. VHS突擊步槍 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.
10. PP-19野牛衝鋒鎗 has been reverted by User:ArikamaI.

and more...

--tk 2014年11月23日 (日) 03:15 (UTC)

我的看法：

• 在中文維基，對於Wikipedia:格式手冊/數學還未達成共識，所以刪空格沒意義。如果將來決定符號之間要有空格，那又得改回來。
• 就一般而言，你的修改也不是沒有side effect，例如整篇文章都刪空格，對版本間差異顯示的影響很大，給後來編者的查察增添困難。也不知會否有潛在問題。
• 即使不是全自動，你還是使用了某種半自動程序吧？否則難以理解你為何數次犯「，。」這樣的錯誤。
• 大規模修改本來就容易出錯。請不要指望別人能檢查你的每一個編輯，還能告訴你哪裡有錯處。檢查應該是你的責任。
• 建議你不如去申請機器人，至少方便監察。

--578985s（留言） 2014年11月23日 (日) 09:35 (UTC)

補充一個，根據Wikipedia:簽名指引，簽名至少包含貢獻，用戶頁或用戶討論頁的鏈接，User:Time killer的簽名不符合要求吧。——路過圍觀的Sakamotosan 2014年11月23日 (日) 09:57 (UTC)

To User:578985s:

• I just comply with Wikipedia:格式手冊, what's the problem with you? If you think 數學 articles are special on Wikipedia, why don't you urge having a discussion instead of claiming "No consensus" one-sidedly?
• "就一般而言，你的修改也不是沒有side effect，例如整篇文章都刪空格，對版本間差異顯示的影響很大，給後來編者的查察增添困難。也不知會否有潛在問題。" <-- How can you say this so easily? Careless wording is very mistakable! I don't think this opinion makes any sense in fact. No matter it is your feeling or guessing, please stop it.
• I have said many times that I didn't use automatic tools. 「，。」 was just my misunderstanding. I remember I had said sorry for the mistake to you. You don't believe me, it's alright, but how can you insist on your hypothesis without any evidence?
• Sure, so I previewed my every edit. Unfortunately, there is still a few mistakes in my thousands of edits. Is there no error in your edits? Or are my errors too many? Most of my edits are correct. I never heard perfectness required on Wikipedia.
• I have also said many times that I am not a robot or using a robot. Why should I apply for a robot? Too ridiculous!

@tk 2014年11月23日 (日) 13:04 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:格式手冊/數學中標明該頁是「尚未達成共識」，"one-sided"從何說起。而且，Wikipedia:格式手冊中亦註明「有關數學或數學式請參閱Wikipedia:WikiProject數學」。
• 把半角符號改為全角符號這點，我覺得挺好。但你的編輯（至少是以往）確實有好些問題。舉例，[1]只改一半弧號；[2]把）（變為逗號，令拼音跟年份連在一起；[3]因改動弧號令內鍵無效。這些恐怕都不是個別的錯誤。
• 我在提報前已經謹慎考慮過。如果你沒有使用自動編輯程序，還請向管理員申訴。--578985s（留言） 2014年11月23日 (日) 15:07 (UTC)

• 有時胡亂刪掉參考文獻內新聞標題用作分隔句子的space：
  • [4]（見「洛杉磯南加州大學再發持槍搶劫 槍手被擊傷」，被Time killer刪掉中間的space，尚有他處不詳列了）
  • [5]（「開放聖人瀑布 溪山里民疾呼」又被刪去space）
• 另有：
  • [6]（「[[RAM (专辑)|RAM]]」改成全形括號）
  • [7]（「國土地理院 地圖閱覽系統 2萬5千分1地形圖名：御嶽山(北東)」，這裡有可能是Time killer用了某種工具自動把「御嶽山(北東)」當作消歧義括號，所以加了space）

我沒有那麼多時間把Time killer的九千幾次編輯逐一檢查，所以答不到"how many errors in my over 9,000 edits?"

--Mewaqua（留言） 2014年11月23日 (日) 18:36 (UTC)

Actually, I didn't think the space is necessary in those articles you mentioned. That's why I deleted them.

The only tool I am using is F3. It is a built-in function in all modern browsers.

@tk 2014年11月24日 (一) 15:02 (UTC)

許多文章標題被你不分青紅皂白刪了space後，變成「開放聖人瀑布溪山里民疾呼」之類長句，就像沒有標點的古文般，讀者要自行判斷在哪裡斷句，我不同意你說的「I didn't think the space is necessary」，如果你不懂中文語法、標點，請停止做你不熟悉的事；如果你堅持繼續同類行為，我會認定為破壞。--Mewaqua（留言） 2014年11月25日 (二) 14:59 (UTC)

Yes,that's your problem.The find and replace function好吧，我的英文超差，我用母語說算了。這個就是你的問題所在了，查找替換本身功能過於簡單，不會去理解文段間的意思，你這樣簡單地查找替換會破壞掉一些有意義的空格，而且從你不能使用中文來看，大概，你不明白一些在zh.WP的寫作方法或中文的寫作方法。甚至過於形式化，在刷編輯數。所以建議不要再這樣做，除非你完全明白你所做的意義，不要拿格式手冊做擋箭牌，一來「The code is more what you call "guidelines" than actual rules.」，二來很明顯你這種所謂的「格式化」行為反而造成其編輯者的困擾，不符合共識。——路過圍觀的Sakamotosan 2014年11月25日 (二) 03:21 (UTC)

舉個「栗子」，special:diff/33407858，大部分空格移除問題問題不大，但「<ref name="jones2009">Jones, Richard D. ''Jane's Infantry Weapons 2009/2010''. Jane's Information Group; 35 edition (January 27, 2009). ISBN 978-0-7106-2869-5.</ref>」的半角括因為作為引用信息，一般不需要替換；「** [http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2013/06/sneak-peek-springfield-armory-xds-9-video/ SNEAK PEEK: SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XDS-9 (VIDEO)]」是網頁標題，不建議替換；「** [http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/05/22/springfield-xd-s-4-0-single-stack-45acp/ Springfield XD-S 4.0” Single Stack .45ACP]」的空格應該是也是網頁標題一部分，也不建議替換。而且還有一點，因為你這裡是多個不同類型的修改混在一起，對於以上三點問題，逐個修改麻煩，回退能更快，而且其他的空格不移除也不是太大問題。說真的，你這樣的操作，我另可回退。——路過圍觀的Sakamotosan 2014年11月25日 (二) 03:34 (UTC)

回User:Time killer：en:Wikipedia:If it ain't broke, don't fix it。制定格式指引時沒有把每一種可能出現的情形都考慮過，如果刪space造成若干文字、圖像過分擠迫不易閱讀，就不必像「五大支柱」或理事會決議那樣必須嚴格遵守，執行格式指引時應該以看到的排版為更優先的考慮，例如你改的[8]，你刪了space後，

「兩個數值a和b構成黃金比例」與先前的

「兩個數值 a 和 b 構成黃金比例」比較（注意斜體字比非斜體字更佔空間），

哪個更美觀？ --Mewaqua（留言） 2014年11月25日 (二) 04:51 (UTC)

請留意本頁面設定顯示為英文字型，上面例子在本頁的顯示比起設定用中文字型的原條目頁面略好（實際顯示字型由用戶瀏覽器的選項設定，可選英文字型）。我懷疑Time killer是不是在瀏覽器設定用了英文字型，所以看到的排版與設定使用中文字型的用戶不同？--Mewaqua（留言） 2014年11月25日 (二) 05:27 (UTC)

I don't think a common style can be changed by font. Chinese users may use (新)細明體、(中易)宋體、(中易)黑體、微軟雅黑、微軟正黑體 by default, but they all look different. Which one is the best? It totally depends on a reader's subjective feeling, preference, etc. If you felt italic style ugly, the solution could be to assign a font to italic style on your computer.@tk 2014年11月29日 (六) 02:47 (UTC)

請留意Wikipedia:格式手冊指出的「以下的規則並沒有聲明不能變動，也不暗示這些規則比其他方式都要好」，在「空格」一節亦指出「其餘未列事項若有爭議，請先到其條目的討論頁或Wikipedia:移動請求等處反映或討論有關問題」，寫明「其餘未列事項」即是說明「特例」不限於該段其它文句已列出者，不存在幾十萬個條目都要保持一致、不能改的「空格common style」，空格並非一定要一刀切「必須徹底消滅」，尤其是有不止一位用戶反對你的做法。--Mewaqua（留言） 2014年11月30日 (日) 18:01 (UTC)

Sure. I don't think "空格「必須徹底消滅」". Could you please stop 以偏概全? Many examples in my edits, like "印度河文明終結 肇因 200年乾旱", "外用， 配入外洗方或加入外用藥中", do you disagree with me? @tk 2014年12月1日 (一) 12:58 (UTC)

疑似本尊是百楽兎

如果你不是老用戶User:Πrate（百楽兎）假扮不懂打中文並意圖擾亂的話，你在「"印度河文明終結 肇因 200年乾旱"」這個例子刪space也是不必要及不應該，保留space的原因是「外部網頁文章標題，原文如此」。--Mewaqua（留言） 2014年12月1日 (一) 14:33 (UTC)

1. A friendly denial to this offensive suspicion. My edits are simple and comply with common style, didn't you also correct punctuations, remove unnecessary spaces and blank lines in this edit like me?

2. Alright, I understood and agree to you point of view. I will keep such a space as it is. @tk 2014年12月2日 (二) 13:12 (UTC)

1. 我的推測是基於多過一個的根據，例如對比[9]和[10]、行事風格等。2. 我對於space空格的取捨準則與你有明顯差異。--Mewaqua（留言） 2014年12月3日 (三) 05:47 (UTC)

說真的，刪infobox中的空格和註釋都是意味不明--578985s（留言） 2014年12月3日 (三) 14:48 (UTC)

It's meaningful. You have to understand first that more and more users edit Wikipedia through smartphone. Too many unnecessary spaces and remarks in a source code, especially only for layout purpose, will make itself difficult to read on a small screen. This is why the concise infobox style becomes popular. One more reason for deleting some remarks is that, they are not written in Chinese. You don't allow English opinions in 互助客棧 but allow non-Chinese remarks in articles, I don't think this kind of differentiation makes any sense. Or just discrimination to me? Anyway, if you all think non-Chinese remarks should be kept there, I will agree to the consensus. @tk 2014年12月5日 (五) 12:09 (UTC)

想到smartphone這麼細緻…算了不清楚。註釋的話如果有需要，即使非中文也不必刪除啊，反正放著又不礙事。互助客棧不留英文是考慮到頁面展示，兩者無比較性。再說，以你的中英水平順道把註釋翻譯過來亦非難事吧…--578985s（留言） 2014年12月5日 (五) 13:36 (UTC)

Some Wales-related Articles

On my user page I've created a table of some articles related to Wales that I hope the Chinese Wikipedia community can create and conrtibute to. I have no Chinese language skills, but I'll help in any other way I can. Diolch. Cymrodor（留言） 2014年12月17日 (三) 16:19 (UTC)

Error Message while posting to my zh.wikipedia.org user talk page

I speak English, but not Chinese. If this is the wrong place, please give me a link to the right place

I tried to post the following on my zh.wikipedia.org user talk page:

== Wrong Place? ==

I prefer that messages be posted to [ https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon ] instead of here, but if you post here I will get a weekly email notice and will eventually get back here to respond. This may take a week or two, so please be patient.

If you find this page on any site other than zh.wikipedia.org you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that mirror pages may be outdated, and that I have no affiliation with or control of mirror websites. The original page is located at [ https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon ].

I got this error message:

提示：維基百科目前正在遭受嚴重的機器人自動破壞，您的編輯觸發了自動過濾器，暫時無法提交。如果您並非破壞者，請先檢查您提交的編輯是否符合維基語法格式（特別是參考來源部分），如無以上問題請向我們報告此錯誤。此外，建議您將編輯內容保存以便未來提交。

我們為在此期間內對您造成的任何不便致以萬分歉意，還望您能理解。

Google Translate into English:

Tip : Wikipedia is currently severely damage the automatic robot , edit your trigger automatic filter , temporarily unable to commit. If you are not spoilers , check to edit your submission meets the wiki syntax ( with particular reference to the source part ) , if no more problems, please report this error to us . Additionally , we recommend that you save your edits to the next submission .

We for any inconvenience during this period caused you to extend my very apologetic , but also hope you can understand.

--Guy Macon (talk) 2014年12月31日 (三) 19:49 (UTC)

@Guy Macon： Just did it for you. --Wcam（留言） 2014年12月31日 (三) 21:22 (UTC)